Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refiners

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Author	Topic: Bleak outlook for U.S. oil refiners	Post a Reply Back to Topics

JT Moderator	Message Posted: 12/2/2008 9:51:25 AM	Ignore JT Report Abuse
	Tuesday, December 02, 2008 Reuters -- – John Kemp is a Reuters columnist. The views expressed are his own – Even by the standards of a deep-cyclical industry, the “golden age” of oil refining has proved remarkably brief, lasting no more than three years, before giving way to a new dark age. Particularly in the United States, refiners have returned to the state of chronic unprofitability that plagued the industry before 2005. U.S. refiners now have too much capacity and produce the wrong products (gasoline) in a fuel economy increasingly dominated by ethanol and diesel. Capacity cuts of as much as 0.5-1.0 million bpd (equivalent to 4-8 average refineries) and expensive investment to reconfigure the system to increase the diesel yield seem inevitable. Visit Reuters for full article

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foxesfords Sophomore Author Atlanta Posts:226 Points:63,700 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:24:42 AM	Ignore foxesfords Report Abuse
	Conservation is working for most interests, but not for the refiners.......
srs_49 Champion Author Baltimore Posts:4,025 Points:437,885 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: 12/4/2008 5:19:37 PM	Ignore srs_49 Report Abuse
	My heart bleeds for them.
magnumCA Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:1,589 Points:303,025 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 8:36:13 PM	Ignore magnumCA Report Abuse
	karma
STEVE853 Champion Author Florida Posts:1,451 Points:356,760 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 6:21:06 PM	Ignore STEVE853 Report Abuse
	Old news.
dranske Veteran Author Miami Posts:336 Points:127,365 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 6:17:59 PM	Ignore dranske Report Abuse
	Soooo
TRITHLN Rookie Author Orlando Posts:67 Points:19,765 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 4:19:40 PM	Ignore TRITHLN Report Abuse
	You're dealing with an industry with a very fine profit line. Just a small change in demand can make a big difference in capacity met or exceeded. Add to that how hard it is to start, stop, or change a refinery line and you have to give the guys a bit of a break. Either that, or watch them go away and depend on only imported products when demand increases.
rob_37 Sophomore Author Little Rock Posts:132 Points:50,615 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 2:26:54 PM	Ignore rob_37 Report Abuse
	old news
cableman31 Champion Author New York Posts:1,004 Points:475,165 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 12:00:50 PM	Ignore cableman31 Report Abuse
	I can't believe ethanol is a major fuel.
Bestworld Sophomore Author San Jose Posts:175 Points:67,285 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:39:52 AM	Ignore Bestworld Report Abuse
	No sympathy here! Refineries are part of the big oil chain that gouged us to death when they could. Let us continue to develop good alternate fuels, especially hydrogen power.
Bestworld Sophomore Author San Jose Posts:175 Points:67,285 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:38:04 AM	Ignore Bestworld Report Abuse
	No sympathy here! Refineries are part of the big oil chain that gouged us to death when they could. Let us continue to develop good alternate fuels, especially hydrogen power.
traindude All-Star Author Virginia Beach Posts:768 Points:222,940 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:33:04 AM	Ignore traindude Report Abuse
	change or die by your own stupidity.
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:2,979 Points:591,570 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:32:54 AM	Ignore Martinman Report Abuse
	Who "owns" Reuters? Seems to me, that's what happens when [you] allow mass-consolidation within an industry and go from more than 50 "refiners" to 6. Lack of competition leads to complacency, complacency leads to obsolesence. And it seems to me that it's the speculators and parent holding companies who are solely affected here. They all have four years of repeated consecutive quarterly record profits to fall back on to increase refining yields and/or reconfigure to more profitable yields - especially at a time when the excess capacity affords the opportunity without impacting operations. Oh, and aren't "they" still benefitting from the 14 Billion in tax breaks for these very types of investments - exploration and capital improvements?
w4kh Champion Author Riverside Posts:3,875 Points:683,570 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:15:30 AM	Ignore w4kh Report Abuse
	It is going to be really hard to dredge up much sympathy for the refiners... they are whining like the auto industry, but it doesn't take them 3 or more years to change from gasoline to diesel, or to improve their efficiency... besides, most just posted record profits, so, unless they are like many brain-dead people who spend every dime the make and save nothing at all, surely they can squeak by on a slightly reduced profit margin? Certainly won't convince me they need a "bail out"!!
jaysun420 Sophomore Author Kansas City Posts:188 Points:47,735 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:13:22 AM	Ignore jaysun420 Report Abuse
	this is ridiculous! How about some better planning years ago...
no1doc Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:1,354 Points:212,325 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:13:02 AM	Ignore no1doc Report Abuse
	Hey! Stop the gov. etoh mandate. The refiners get an 11.1% increase in gas demand. The consumer gets better mileage, more corn is available for food consumption, and some fuel pumps will last longer. Good for refiners and good for gas consumers.
sobot Rookie Author Phoenix Posts:24 Points:818,780 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:07:28 AM	Ignore sobot Report Abuse
	So what is the reason for concern? For the consumers the main thing is : Good product at a good price.
CzechSteve Veteran Author Orange County Posts:475 Points:114,275 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:04:39 AM	Ignore CzechSteve Report Abuse
	they deserve this crap that they shed on us for 3 years
qaqcsup Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,666 Points:177,185 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:03:56 AM	Ignore qaqcsup Report Abuse
	old opinion
wizzard1222 All-Star Author St. Louis Posts:643 Points:749,550 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:03:00 AM	Ignore wizzard1222 Report Abuse
	Crude under $47/bbl.!
jevans25 Rookie Author Pittsburgh Posts:60 Points:18,160 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:01:53 AM	Ignore jevans25 Report Abuse
	This guy is a JOKE
VTROCK Sophomore Author Detroit Posts:176 Points:55,355 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:00:33 AM	Ignore VTROCK Report Abuse
	If there is a need to close refineries, let's make sure it's the ones on the Gulf Coast where they tend to be disrupted by hurricanes. Preferrably in Senetor Shelby's district in Alabama. Management made the poor decision to locate there when the region is threatened by Mother Nature so they should have to suffer the consequences.
rerosales Veteran Author Corpus Christi Posts:266 Points:225,625 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:59:45 AM	Ignore rerosales Report Abuse
	Lower demand will continue to affect refiners.
Palico Sophomore Author South Carolina Posts:156 Points:52,895 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:56:24 AM	Ignore Palico Report Abuse
	"The views expressed are his own " Okay and no proff to what he claims. Lets see some real news here.
RideKT22 Rookie Author Orlando Posts:86 Points:13,945 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:56:05 AM	Ignore RideKT22 Report Abuse
	skewed to say the least...joke!
joel27nc Champion Author Raleigh Posts:2,276 Points:298,150 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:53:40 AM	Ignore joel27nc Report Abuse
	ok
SpyderDee All-Star Author Columbus Posts:632 Points:139,075 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:51:36 AM	Ignore SpyderDee Report Abuse
	Why does this not surprise me. Conserve & make sure all Bail Out funds stay WITHIN the UNITED STATES.
Bigamus Sophomore Author Kansas Posts:207 Points:465,885 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:50:56 AM	Ignore Bigamus Report Abuse
	The "Golden Age" of what!!!!
parsec All-Star Author Toronto Posts:581 Points:88,515 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:50:34 AM	Ignore parsec Report Abuse
	Who paid the guy who wrote this stupid article?
guyincognitoNY Veteran Author New York Posts:386 Points:92,060 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:49:55 AM	Ignore guyincognitoNY Report Abuse
	the hell with them
REVLAW Champion Author San Antonio Posts:2,333 Points:440,585 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:49:54 AM	Ignore REVLAW Report Abuse
	The inevitability of infrastructural improvements, in order to "stay ahead" of evolving demand. seems quite illusive to those unwilling to contemplate issues or problems in advance and plan accordingly. I guess using one's "noggin" and application of an "old fashioned work ethic" is now truely "old fashioned". The new generation seems to "want it all" without expended effort or risk. We knew "back then" that something was weird about the "flower children" ... something "alien" about the nature.
Biogen Veteran Author Ventura Posts:454 Points:108,480 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:47:01 AM	Ignore Biogen Report Abuse
	Just keep conserving
AlaRedNeck Champion Author Kansas Posts:1,403 Points:254,475 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:46:43 AM	Ignore AlaRedNeck Report Abuse
	when the markets recover they will make their money back
tobasco Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:3,277 Points:864,945 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:46:15 AM	Ignore tobasco Report Abuse
	Ahhh the business cycle.
Wizrd03 Sophomore Author Illinois Posts:226 Points:68,775 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:46:09 AM	Ignore Wizrd03 Report Abuse
	Cut out the specialty blends, use the capacity to produce diesel & heating oil.
purvismike All-Star Author Wisconsin Posts:752 Points:154,875 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:41:33 AM	Ignore purvismike Report Abuse
	BS
danthemanvan Champion Author Montgomery Posts:3,340 Points:695,880 Joined:Nov 2006	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:41:09 AM	Ignore danthemanvan Report Abuse
	No matter what happens, let's keep conserving, acting as if gas was still $4 a gallon. Let's not go back to our lustful ways.
longponder Sophomore Author Massachusetts Posts:229 Points:49,430 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:36:50 AM	Ignore longponder Report Abuse
	Desperately in need of a glut supply of diesel.
Sealer Champion Author Charleston Posts:2,958 Points:345,655 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:36:34 AM	Ignore Sealer Report Abuse
	Refineries are rarely profitable. That's why refining capacity is very tight whenever we reach peak demand.
Mazdaman7Q Champion Author South Carolina Posts:3,802 Points:830,755 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:35:52 AM	Ignore Mazdaman7Q Report Abuse
	Food prices are still going through the roof, so I'm hoping Capital hill is get some common sense soon and drop this idiotic idea of turning food to fuel aka ethanol
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:8,886 Points:1,361,805 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:33:22 AM	Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse
	The article says that the economy is dominated by ethanol and diesel. Well OK, but refineries don't produce ethanol. And I'd hardly say we have an ethnol economy. Oh, and isn't diesel a co-product with gasoline? Both are produced together. It's hard to make one without the other.
giacobbe Rookie Author Salt Lake City Posts:62 Points:9,855 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:32:48 AM	Ignore giacobbe Report Abuse
	About time for refineries to find a more effective and efficient way to refine oil than the old 60's method.
cudatim All-Star Author San Antonio Posts:837 Points:400,875 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:32:45 AM	Ignore cudatim Report Abuse
	We all have our cross to bear, at different times-different crosses.
BartBuzz Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:416 Points:212,185 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:30:34 AM	Ignore BartBuzz Report Abuse
	That's what you said yesterday. Old news.
Oldwolf All-Star Author Raleigh Posts:613 Points:829,250 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:30:01 AM	Ignore Oldwolf Report Abuse
	Keep conserving...
10k Champion Author North Carolina Posts:6,044 Points:676,850 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:29:57 AM	Ignore 10k Report Abuse
	tuff...git in the layoff line with the rest of us...
DRHCNY Veteran Author New York Posts:443 Points:256,225 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:28:38 AM	Ignore DRHCNY Report Abuse
	Why do we have to ail out all the bad choices by big companies but we are left holding the bag.
TornadoRed All-Star Author Iowa Posts:801 Points:377,130 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:28:19 AM	Ignore TornadoRed Report Abuse
	rod1965: "Smart people change with the times. Dumb people get left by the wayside." Some of the dumbest people in the world are contributors to the GasBuddy forums.
sta135 Champion Author New York Posts:2,700 Points:182,760 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:25:51 AM	Ignore sta135 Report Abuse
	"smart people change with the times"...if they have the money to invest, and they can get the refinery changes through 100 layers of government regulation.
TornadoRed All-Star Author Iowa Posts:801 Points:377,130 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:25:08 AM	Ignore TornadoRed Report Abuse
	Most refineries in the world are NOT owned by companies that pump their own crude oil. They have to buy crude oil on the open market, then sell their products on the open market. They do not set the prices. If you think refiners are making bundles of money, then buy shares in those companies. Or lend them money so they upgrade their equipment, to produce more diesel from each barrel of crude.
Expdn2000 Sophomore Author Hartford Posts:239 Points:39,660 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:24:56 AM	Ignore Expdn2000 Report Abuse
	Whine, Whine, Sniffle....

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